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#1 2012-04-05 21:25:57

FP
Member
Registered: 2012-02-12
Posts: 17

Modal analysis for CABLE element

Hi to all,

I have a model which is composed of beam and cable elements, (POU_D_T , CABLE), I am trying
to calculate the buckling modes or natural frequencies of the structure but when I use the
CALC_MATR_ELEM command , code_aster gives me the error :



Le TYPE_ELEMENT MECABL2  ne sait pas encore calculer l'OPTION:  RIGI_MECA. 



I tried  OPTION='RIGI_GEOM' instead of RIGI_MECA , and I applied SIEF_ELGA, but again I received
the error :

-> Le TYPE_ELEMENT MECABL2  ne sait pas encore calculer l'OPTION:              !
   ! RIGI_MECA_GE.



Is there any way to solve this problem ? your help is highly appreciated.
I am using 10.6 stable version.

Thanks
FP

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#2 2012-04-05 23:47:30

Thomas DE SOZA
Guru
From: EDF
Registered: 2007-11-23
Posts: 2117

Re: Modal analysis for CABLE element

Hi,

The CABLE element is a non-linear element. The elastic stiffness matrix (RIGI_MECA) has no meaning for it since it doesn't work the same in tension and compression (compression == null).
Since it does not work in compression, it is not submitted to buckling and therefore cannot compute a geometrix stiffness matrix (RIGI_MECA_GE).

If you want to study the stability (buckling analysis) of a structure consisting of beams and cables (for example a tensegrity structure) then you need to make a non-linear buckling analysis with STAT_NON_LINE and use the keyword CRIT_STAB (or CRIT_FLAMB in older versions).
If the beams are all elastic then use POU_D_T_GD model with CABLE model in conjunction with GROT_GDEP kinematic hypothesis.

The quick step for non-linear analysis is described in [U2.08.04].

TdS

Last edited by Thomas DE SOZA (2012-04-05 23:47:52)

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#3 2012-04-06 17:00:56

FP
Member
Registered: 2012-02-12
Posts: 17

Re: Modal analysis for CABLE element

Thanks for your reply Thomas,
I tried your method and It works, but because of my model and geometry, most of the
first buckling modes and frequencies are related to cables and it is logical.
To get the higher buckling loads in which the beam elements are affected, I increased the parameter NB_FREQ, and the
results have been better.
To view the buckling modes I am using the 'MODE_FLAMB parameter in IMPR_RESU, but it does not
show the defined number of frequencies in NB_FREQ.
for example I put the NB_FREQ=20 , and IMPR_RESU should show me 20 buckling modes in each time step of STAT_NON_LINE (in SALOME outpu) , but it only shows only 1 . How can I solve this problem ?



More over, I can only check  the critical loads from this line in mess file :

LES CHARGES CRITIQUES CALCULEES INF. ET SUP. SONT:
      CHARGE_CRITIQUE_INF :  3.81704E-02
      CHARGE_CRITIQUE_SUP :  2.11705E+00

which it seems that the first number is my first buckling load and the second number is the last buckling load, how can I have
all of 20 buckling loads defined in NB_FREQ in the output, or even better in SALOME med file?

Regards
FP

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#4 2012-04-07 22:42:52

Thomas DE SOZA
Guru
From: EDF
Registered: 2007-11-23
Posts: 2117

Re: Modal analysis for CABLE element

FP wrote:

Thanks for your reply Thomas,
I tried your method and It works, but because of my model and geometry, most of the
first buckling modes and frequencies are related to cables and it is logical.
To get the higher buckling loads in which the beam elements are affected, I increased the parameter NB_FREQ, and the
results have been better.
To view the buckling modes I am using the 'MODE_FLAMB parameter in IMPR_RESU, but it does not
show the defined number of frequencies in NB_FREQ.
for example I put the NB_FREQ=20 , and IMPR_RESU should show me 20 buckling modes in each time step of STAT_NON_LINE (in SALOME outpu) , but it only shows only 1 . How can I solve this problem ?

We are aware of this limitation. There's an improvement posted to our bugtracker but it has not been given high priority.
The following post talks about it (alas in french) :
http://www.code-aster.org/forum2/viewtopic.php?id=15852

See below nevertheless because you might not need that.

FP wrote:

More over, I can only check  the critical loads from this line in mess file :

LES CHARGES CRITIQUES CALCULEES INF. ET SUP. SONT:
      CHARGE_CRITIQUE_INF :  3.81704E-02
      CHARGE_CRITIQUE_SUP :  2.11705E+00

which it seems that the first number is my first buckling load and the second number is the last buckling load, how can I have
all of 20 buckling loads defined in NB_FREQ in the output, or even better in SALOME med file?

Regards
FP

If you did your calculation with large displacement hypothesis (GROT_GDEP) then to find a buckling mode you have to push your loading until the smallest eigen value (CHARGE_CRITIQUE_INF) goes below zero. This is because in large displacements the stiffness matrix already embeds the geometric stiffness matrix. Moreover in non-linear analysis finding a critical multiplier for a buckling mode has no meaning since non-linearity means that stresses won't increase proportionally.

There are some test cases that show this way of searching buckling mode. For example, one of the models in SSLL105.
This post (in french again) also mentions it : http://www.code-aster.org/forum2/viewtopic.php?id=15576

Once you have found the time step where the smallest eigen value goes below zero, the mode in MODE_FLAMB is the one you're looking for.

TdS

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#5 2012-04-09 01:15:30

FP
Member
Registered: 2012-02-12
Posts: 17

Re: Modal analysis for CABLE element

Dear Thomas , Thanks for your answers,

Keeping aside the buckling loads,
Is there any way to find the natural vibration frequencies (eigen values) and mode shapes of the mentioned cable structure?
my analysis is 'GDEP_GROT'  but the material behavior is elastic.
For example can I use the ' DYNA_NON_LINE' command or other one to do this, I only need the eigen values and mode shapes,
without applying any kind of dynamical load or even modal damping.
If it is possible, How can I output the mode shapes in med file?

All the best,
FP

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#6 2012-04-10 13:02:12

Thomas DE SOZA
Guru
From: EDF
Registered: 2007-11-23
Posts: 2117

Re: Modal analysis for CABLE element

Hi,

To compute natural frequencies of a pre-stressed structure or a non-linear structure (your case), you may the MODE_VIBR keyword in DYNA_NON_LINE (works similar to CRIT_STAB in STAT_NON_LINE but for eigen analysis).

See http://www.code-aster.org/forum2/viewtopic.php?id=15852

TdS

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#7 2012-04-10 15:11:23

FP
Member
Registered: 2012-02-12
Posts: 17

Re: Modal analysis for CABLE element

Hi, Thomas

I used the DYNA_NON_LINE command with MODE_VIBR, but I got the following error :

Post-traitement: calcul d'un mode vibratoire

   
   !-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------!
   ! <EXCEPTION> <CALCULEL_30>                                                                                 !
   !                                                                                                           !
   ! Erreur utilisateur :                                                                                      !
   !   -> Le TYPE_ELEMENT MECABL2  ne sait pas encore calculer l'OPTION:  RIGI_MECA.                           !
   !                                                                                                           !
   !   -> Risques & Conseils :                                                                                 !
   !    * Si vous utilisez une commande de "calcul" (THER_LINEAIRE, STAT_NON_LINE, ...), il n'y a pas          !
   !      moyen de contourner ce probl�me.Il faut changer de mod�lisation ou  �mettre une demande d'�volution. !
   !                                                                                                           !
   !    * Si c'est un calcul de post-traitement, vous pouvez sans doute "�viter" le probl�me                   !
   !      en ne faisant le post-traitement que sur les mailles qui savent le faire.                            !
   !      Pour cela, il faut sans doute utiliser un mot cl� de type "GROUP_MA".                                !
   !      S'il n'y en a pas, il faut faire une demande d'�volution.                                            !
   !-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------!
   

Actually when I remove the MODE_VIBR from the command, it works, but I am only interested to natural frequencies at this step.
I do not want to apply any dynamical loads.

Thanks
FP

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#8 2012-04-10 16:11:47

Thomas DE SOZA
Guru
From: EDF
Registered: 2007-11-23
Posts: 2117

Re: Modal analysis for CABLE element

Use keyword MATR_RIGI under MODE_VIBR to select 'TANGENTE'.

TdS

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#9 2012-04-10 19:00:28

FP
Member
Registered: 2012-02-12
Posts: 17

Re: Modal analysis for CABLE element

Ok , it worked. Is there a way to view the mode-shapes in med file ?
with IMPR_RESU , I used DEPL_VIBR, MODE_MECA, MODE_VIBRE but none of them worked.
I am using stable version (10.6).

Thanks
FP

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#10 2012-04-10 20:12:32

Sumaiya
Member
Registered: 2012-04-10
Posts: 1

Re: Modal analysis for CABLE element

Be certain you want to leave - it seems obvious advice but you'd be surprised how many people accept a job offer and hand in their resignation only to change their mind a few days later. Once you've resigned that should mean you're leaving and not be the start ofterminationyour thinking process. Clearly evaluate the job offer and compare it honestly with you current audit role. Ask the advice of others but make sure the final decision is yours.

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#11 2012-04-11 09:30:21

Thomas DE SOZA
Guru
From: EDF
Registered: 2007-11-23
Posts: 2117

Re: Modal analysis for CABLE element

Hi,

Sadly there's a bug in 10.6 and although the field is produced (MODE_MECA) I think it cannot be retrieved.

I'm afraid the simplest is to use a 11.1 version.

TdS

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#12 2012-04-13 05:57:18

FP
Member
Registered: 2012-02-12
Posts: 17

Re: Modal analysis for CABLE element

Thank you very much Thomas,
I will try with version 11.1, soon.

All the best,
FP

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